Sacrilege question, but...

[waltlongmire]

I know this may qualify as sacrilege to even ask but:

I need a pros / cons of the ATN X-Sight II compared to the Burris Eliminator III - from a hunting perspective, max range probably 300, MAYBE 400 yards.

I know there are obvious advantages to both in certain respects (ATN has a lot more compensation considerations to its reticle you can enter to make adjustment like elevation, etc; while the Burris has an ACTUAL, very accurate, laser range finger built right into the scope itself, so no external device or hoping your target doesn't move to use the ranging system of the ATN)... but for a novice rifle shooter - I am having trouble seeing the advantage of one over the other to "pull the trigger" on my optic for my Springfield M1A for hunting this season.. especially given ATN's release of bug fixes and feature promises has been - how shall I say - very obviously wanting / less than the best reputation?

I am not looking brand new on the Eliminator (where the cost is basically almost triple the ATN), but I know to have a warrenty I have to buy the ATN new - so there is probably only about a $300 price difference between the 5-20 ATN and the 3-16 Eliminator (which I know is a factor, but at sub 500 yards is it really?)

So please... any pros or cons sales pitch you can give would be GREATLY appreciated right now.
Tax return just came back so I'm in the market to buy soon!

[tomvb]

Walt, while I don't know own and have never used the Burris you mentioned, I was intrigued enough to read on it and look at some reviews. I am the proud owner of the XS2 3-14x, and know a thing or two about its capabilities. Based on what I know of the ATN and have read on the Burris Eliminator, unless you're going to hunt at night, or want/need the ability to record your shots/kills, it seems the Burris is the better choice. I won't go into all the 'why's', but strictly from what I've studied, its capability for long(er) range targeting makes the Burris stand out.

Hopefully a member who has owned or used both the ATN XS and Burris Eliminator will give you a better 2 cents than MHO.

Tom

[eradicator]

Yup, this is an easy one.....Tom is 100% correct.....if you aren't considering night work, you are comparing second generation digital to very nice, well-built optics....it's isn't even a contest when it comes to accuracy or clarity of target.

I also have several other scopes and while I have not received my newly ordered X II, there is no way that it's picture is going to even equal my Leapers Golden Image 3x9x40 (sub $200 new) at 100yds. To me, it's comparing apples & oranges...they are both fruit but taste completely different from one another. The Burris is a thousand dollar + piece of optics.....and depending on the magnification, it's going to be pretty much like shooting something 10' from the end of your suppressor! Invest in a bi-or tri stand and you'll be happy.

Erad

[waltlongmire]

Thanks for the input,...
As it turns out my need did change. Turns out that based on the planned "guys weekend" trip being planned down to Texas for feral hog hunting coming up here soon, the best chances we'll have to bag larger and multiple hogs will be the first hour of light and the last if we don't want to do NV, but with NV you have a great chance to bag them... given that will be my first hunt, and may very well be my most lucrative one too for meat for my family + giving anything beyond the first 2 kills to my in-law's upstart BBQ business as a donation, I decided the NV aspect was kind of a good idea. If I can come home with 6 hogs myself, or even up to 12 if I let my son use my rifle after I've bagged my daily limit, it is definitely worth the investment on the scope as well as the trip, the rifle, everything.

[eradicator]

All that makes sense then Walt. You might want a scope that does day & night like the X-2 in a 3x or 5x format or you might want to look at the Sightmark photon in a 4x or 6x format. I did a LOT of research over the past 5 months before buying my X-2 3x.

Here is what I found out for night vision.

1. Really good night vision requires Gen2 or higher....a lot of money. Roughly 3200-3600 for a good quality scope BUT it can only be used at night.
2. Digitals provides the only solution that work in the day as well as the night, but like any compromise, it's perfect at neither.
3. Sightmarks are loved by those that own them but they are what they are, and cannot be updated or made better with software(firmware).
4. ATN X-sight 2's CAN be updated and are being refined to some extent with each new release of their firmware.
5. Both run 600-650 bucks.
6. Due to the non-upgradable solution Sightmark chose, it's very simple to use but will never get better in picture quality or in any other way.
7. Due to the updatable solution that ATN chose, there is a world of features that are available to users that Sightmark owners can only dream of BUT the "cost" of that is that owners have to invest the time to really learn their scopes so that they can master all of the ins and outs.

I found that the Sightmark is by far the easiest to use out of the box. For someone who isn't computer-inclined, I would suggest looking hard at one of theirs. If you want a scope that has a lot of special features and you are willing to invest the time to make it work well for you, buy an ATN.

Now before it looks like I'm pretending to be someone who actually knows anything, I will tell you that I have not received my ATN yet but the above is just what I learned over the past several months...just so I could make my decision.

The more experienced guys can now chime in and tell us both if I have laid this out pretty reasonably or if I'm dead wrong!


Erad

[waltlongmire]

Well for me I need daytime mode without compromise. Here in CO where I'll hunt elk and deer this fall / winter - I was told I cannot have a thermal / NV scope - period.
SO... to get around that, I MUST video tape my kills to prove I was in daytime mode if I want to use this optic.

To that...
Given the desire to be able to hunt hog in Texas daytime or night (which I suspect I may do annually if I can) + the requirement for NO active NV in Colorado for any hunting (with the singular exception of coyote where permitted), I made the choice to go with the X-Sight II 5-20.

Fortunately for me, through some leveraging of other auctions on eBay at the time, I managed to work with an authorized ATN dealer to get a verified previously unsold open box demo unit, intact warranty as I am the first owner, X-S2 5-20 for a ridiculously low price in combination with the brand new LaserBallistic 1000 range finder. Total cost of the pair for me is coming in for less than the price of a brand new X-S2 5-20 at local retail locations like Cabelas or such other walk in store markets, or even Amazon at the moment. I will still need to get an external battery (solar 20,000mah, already ordered and on the way), the cable for it to do external power, and I'll steal a SD card out of one of my old smart phones I realized I never re-purposed - but otherwise It'll be good to go and arriving here hopefully tomorrow for setup. I'll have to figure out my cheek weld positioning so I can order a add-on riser of that nature where I can attach the battery pack, but yeah, otherwise, I should be good to go equipment wise for basic setup and testing by end-of-week (if my test hunting rounds make it in).

I've already got scope mount on the M1A ready and waiting too!

I'll sight her with some Federal Fusion series 150gr spitzer boat tail - good, clean, renowned for reasonable accuracy. I'll do the full 5x magnification at 50 yards one-shot zero technique, zoom to 20 and re-do / tweak until happy with a 3 shot group, move to the 100 yard range at 5x zoom to test 3 shot group, tweak as need, zoom to 10x with a 3 shot group and tweak as needed, zoom to 20 with a 3 shot group and tweak as needed. Confirm once "happy" with the tweaks with a follow up 5 shot group then save as the "primary zeroing" profile to build on.

From there will come the high end precision hunting rounds... 5 different MFGs, 1 box each. All are 168gr BTHP, all but 1 to be tested is "tipped," but all are lead-free HP when the tip disintegrates / pushes in. Those will be the real test for the gun and the optic as one of those will end up being my hunting round. If all goes well based on the information I found on the ammo on line 3 of the 5 have identical stats on velocity and such despite having different bullet designs, so I should only need to create 3 profiles for the 5 different MFGs. Tweak as needed, but this is where the ballistics calculator will be most helpful to re-adjust targeting w/o (hopefully) having to re-zero.

After those - 147gr XM80 FMJ plinking ammo to see how some "surplus" runs with the optic under its own "plinking" profile.

Really this isn't just a test and zeroing of the optic - it is a test of the hunting ammunition too. I am told the M1As can be particular about what ammo they like to eat best when it comes to those new high pressure hunting rounds.

[texasken]

If you come to Texas to hunt hog, you might be better off with a laser or dot sight for daytime. Unless you're in a blind watching a feeder from across the field, most of the hogs will be shot within 100' and sometimes less! Especially in the brushy areas. There will be many times when you won't have a chance to even get a sight picture when a 300+ pounder comes out of the brush and he thinks you're in his way. They WILL come at you! And they can run about 2-3 times faster than you.

And if you really want to see Grit, go out with the suicidal guys that hunt hog with a pistol or bow. You better be good at what you do; Otherwise, that's like hunting rhino with a BB gun.

I've got some "small" ones here on my property. The one below is about 175-200 pounds. The angle of camera doesn't show it's size well until you see my 90 pound dog caught by the same camera.

Attachments:

[waltlongmire]

Well since the ATN X-Sight II was declared illegal to use in Colorado to hunt ANYTHING but invasive species --- I'm regressing to a traditional optic and going to put the LB1000 LRF to good use it would seem... so the whole conversation really is moot. The ATN has been returned. The refund posted this morning. I just have to decided on a traditional optic now.

[oldspook]

Apr 9, 2017 11:51:05 GMT -8 texasken said:

And if you really want to see Grit, go out with the suicidal guys that hunt hog with a pistol or bow. You better be good at what you do; Otherwise, that's like hunting rhino with a BB gun.

When I was stationed on Oahu, the local boys hunted boar with a spear.  That takes cojones.  Get him to charge place the butt of the spear in the dirt.  Let the hog impale himself on the spear.

[texasken]

Apr 12, 2017 18:08:51 GMT -8 oldspook said:

Apr 9, 2017 11:51:05 GMT -8 texasken said:

And if you really want to see Grit, go out with the suicidal guys that hunt hog with a pistol or bow. You better be good at what you do; Otherwise, that's like hunting rhino with a BB gun.

When I was stationed on Oahu, the local boys hunted boar with a spear.  That takes cojones.  Get him to charge place the butt of the spear in the dirt.  Let the hog impale himself on the spear.

Yeah, that takes some real Brass too.